Rick Sadowski: Avs-Wings meeting brings back memories of fierce rivalry

I think a good rivalry would really do wonders for this team. Detroit is still one of the biggest games of the year for the svs and if we can build up a rival in our division that came even close would do wonders.

The rivalry is dead, the only people who still think it's going are those fair weather fans who only go to Avs-Red Wings games each year. As of right now we don't really have a rival, as we sucked, but St. Louis and Chicago are good potentials for rivalries.

The rivalry is dead, the only people who still think it's going are those fair weather fans who only go to Avs-Red Wings games each year. As of right now we don't really have a rival, as we sucked, but St. Louis and Chicago are good potentials for rivalries.
- Avs-Ice

The Avs rebuilding and the Wings getting lucky with Dats and Zetty made the teams competitive at different times. Avs were rebuilding these past few years as the wings have kept it up and the wings will be rebuilding when the Avs are making cup runs.

I think a team that is good 2-3 years from now could make a good rival and whether it be WPG, Dal, Chi or Stl if we can manage to go at it a few playoff rounds I think it would be great.

The avs could also build a strong rivalry with one of the expansion teams as well.

The rivalry is dead, the only people who still think it's going are those fair weather fans who only go to Avs-Red Wings games each year. As of right now we don't really have a rival, as we sucked, but St. Louis and Chicago are good potentials for rivalries.
- Avs-Ice

I agree, St Louis is our closet Rival right now based on the trade and fans jawing at eachother of how we got fleeced, but I think based on last night Dallas could be a pesky team to play against for years to come. Can see them becoming a huge rival for us in a year or 2.

All it takes is one claude Lemieux to kick off a rivalry.

Damn did we ever get fleeced! Barrie, EJ, Elliot, and Siemens, packaged together aren't as good as shattenkirk and Stewart.

Damn did we ever get fleeced! Barrie, EJ, Elliot, and Siemens, packaged together aren't as good as shattenkirk and Stewart.
- SoundsOfTheIce

That's not really a fair comparison.... You forgot about Rattie.

I agree, St Louis is our closet Rival right now based on the trade and fans jawing at eachother of how we got fleeced, but I think based on last night Dallas could be a pesky team to play against for years to come. Can see them becoming a huge rival for us in a year or 2.

All it takes is one claude Lemieux to kick off a rivalry.
- DDM-Coga

I STILL would defend the trade. I don't think its accurate to say the avs were fleeced. I still think it was a trade that worked out well for both side, however it did work out better for STL than for the avs, but still worked.

Although EJ hasn't preformed even close to what the avs have hoped (or to the level the players he was traded for have), he is still the exact type of player that the avs have needed since the trade and will continue to be the right fit for the team.

Looking at the team Stewy has always been streaky and lost the blues the playoffs last year by being a no show, but he has always been a streaky player that the Avs don't even have a need for with our offense as good as it is now. Also as good as a #2 as Shatty is and while EJ may not be the best #1 in the league they are still not interchangeable.

So even though EJ still has A LOT of room to improve I still think it was a good trade for the team. Especially with EJ signed to a good deal that doesn't hurt us cap wise (he is signed for CHEAP) and if Siemens becomes a solid shut down guy then the avs got everything they needed.

I STILL would defend the trade. I don't think its accurate to say the avs were fleeced. I still think it was a trade that worked out well for both side, however it did work out better for STL than for the avs, but still worked.

Although EJ hasn't preformed even close to what the avs have hoped (or to the level the players he was traded for have), he is still the exact type of player that the avs have needed since the trade and will continue to be the right fit for the team.

Looking at the team Stewy has always been streaky and lost the blues the playoffs last year by being a no show, but he has always been a streaky player that the Avs don't even have a need for with our offense as good as it is now. Also as good as a #2 as Shatty is and while EJ may not be the best #1 in the league they are still not interchangeable.

So even though EJ still has A LOT of room to improve I still think it was a good trade for the team. Especially with EJ signed to a good deal that doesn't hurt us cap wise (he is signed for CHEAP) and if Siemens becomes a solid shut down guy then the avs got everything they needed.
- Meeqsb

I dont mind the trade either, I think we are a tougher team to play against with EJ, Shattenkirk is a great puck moving dman, but I dont think he is a minute muncher like Johnson can be.

I think Siemens is still going to be a beast, so in the end we will do well.

I dont mind the trade either, I think we are a tougher team to play against with EJ, Shattenkirk is a great puck moving dman, but I dont think he is a minute muncher like Johnson can be.

I think Siemens is still going to be a beast, so in the end we will do well.
- DDM-Coga

EJ is still only 25 too. I never understood why the trade got as much hate as it did. I will even say Sherman did a lot of things right. Avs dont have a single bad contract (at least not anymore).

EJ is still only 25 too. I never understood why the trade got as much hate as it did. I will even say Sherman did a lot of things right. Avs dont have a single bad contract (at least not anymore).
- Meeqsb

With many of Sherman's trades, the problem wasn't the players he brought in. The problem with trades for players like EJ and Varly was that there was a huge overpayment. I love having both players on the Avs but I think they could have been brought in for less.

Also, if you really dissect the trades it could have gotten really ugly with some of the conditions. If St. Louis finishes one spot lower in the standings in 2011, the swap of picks in that trade happens one year later and the trade looks more like:

Col: EJ, McClement, and pick 25 in 2012
STL: Stewart, Shattenkirk, 41 in 2012

In the Varly trade, Washington had the choice of taking a 2nd in 12 or 13. If McPhee decides to be patient we have a prospect like Mike Winther instead of Chris Bigras.

With many of Sherman's trades, the problem wasn't the players he brought in. The problem with trades for players like EJ and Varly was that there was a huge overpayment. I love having both players on the Avs but I think they could have been brought in for less.

Also, if you really dissect the trades it could have gotten really ugly with some of the conditions. If St. Louis finishes one spot lower in the standings in 2011, the swap of picks in that trade happens one year later and the trade looks more like:

Col: EJ, McClement, and pick 25 in 2012
STL: Stewart, Shattenkirk, 41 in 2012

In the Varly trade, Washington had the choice of taking a 2nd in 12 or 13. If McPhee decides to be patient we have a prospect like Mike Winther instead of Chris Bigras.
- westonie

Well why don't we look at what really happened instead of just being silly. Also he did overpay, but I would say not as much as people would think. I would give validity to the fact that other GM's could strong arm him a bit but we also need to make sure to avoid hindsight bias as well.

My favorite part is that he always signed good contracts given the situation.

Ya we did overpay some, but as Meeqsb says we got what we needed. Both teams win in that EJ deal. Do I think St Louis may have done slightly better, sure. But I think the Avs are better off as well. It wasn't a trade made out of panic, but a long term gamble instead. That was the right approach by Sherman (or Lacroix, depending who really made these decisions). Same with Varly, steep cost, but thinking down the road. And look what Washington did with that first round pick prospect, traded him for Martin Erat at the deadline out of panic going into the playoffs (Where the Caps bomb out anyways). THAT is the kind of trade worth losing sleep over.

Ya we did overpay some, but as Meeqsb says we got what we needed. Both teams win in that EJ deal. Do I think St Louis may have done slightly better, sure. But I think the Avs are better off as well. It wasn't a trade made out of panic, but a long term gamble instead. That was the right approach by Sherman (or Lacroix, depending who really made these decisions). Same with Varly, steep cost, but thinking down the road. And look what Washington did with that first round pick prospect, traded him for Martin Erat at the deadline out of panic going into the playoffs (Where the Caps bomb out anyways). THAT is the kind of trade worth losing sleep over.
- Footer52

It all has to do with timing. I mean Varly is probably the best player in the entire NHL atm.

I don't mind the trade looking back on it. Of course it looks like a fleece job! The trade was made in a period where the Blues were in WIN NOW mode while the Avs were rebuilding. So it's a no-brainer that the Blues would put up a bunch of stats to make the trade look one-sided.

It's not the case today. EJ is the #1 defender on the #1 ranked defense in the NHL. Okay okay it's early, so what? Duncan has shown all the right signs that he will be a solid NHL player. That's two key pieces at a young age with a ton of upside.

Meanwhile, because the Blues gave up on EJ, they had to re-draft at the defense position (Petro) to make up for it. Petro is the real deal but that set them back an entire year. In today's NHL when you are drafting in the top 10, you can't afford to swing and miss. The last 2 seasons they were a trendy pick to make it to the finals and both times they ran out of scoring in the playoffs. Defense is wonderful but if you are counting on Stewie to show up when you need him most....just ask the Avs.....that's what made him expendable.

Meanwhile the Avs drafted Duchene, Lando and MacK and each of them have their own line....the Blues were brutal for eternity and still don't have one forward to match either of those guys.

Give it another year or two when we see Duncan in the NHL...this trade isn't over yet.

Ya we did overpay some, but as Meeqsb says we got what we needed. Both teams win in that EJ deal. Do I think St Louis may have done slightly better, sure. But I think the Avs are better off as well. It wasn't a trade made out of panic, but a long term gamble instead. That was the right approach by Sherman (or Lacroix, depending who really made these decisions). Same with Varly, steep cost, but thinking down the road. And look what Washington did with that first round pick prospect, traded him for Martin Erat at the deadline out of panic going into the playoffs (Where the Caps bomb out anyways). THAT is the kind of trade worth losing sleep over.
- Footer52

That does make the trades easier, we didnt give up young assets for old vetern players, we gambled and its working out now.

What EJ brings to the table, as a top pairing D-Man, at that cap hit, its a steal. He is slowly changing his game, I can see him becoming more of a Adam Foote style Dman vs a Rob Blake style.

Varly has played great for us since day 1 in Colorado, sure his stats the first 2 seasons dont show it, but inconsistent days off and playing on a really badly managed team last season, just those bad games of his really deflated his stats. Im glad he is finally getting the props he deserves

I don't mind the trade looking back on it. Of course it looks like a fleece job! The trade was made in a period where the Blues were in WIN NOW mode while the Avs were rebuilding. So it's a no-brainer that the Blues would put up a bunch of stats to make the trade look one-sided.

It's not the case today. EJ is the #1 defender on the #1 ranked defense in the NHL. Okay okay it's early, so what? Duncan has shown all the right signs that he will be a solid NHL player. That's two key pieces at a young age with a ton of upside.

Meanwhile, because the Blues gave up on EJ, they had to re-draft at the defense position (Petro) to make up for it. Petro is the real deal but that set them back an entire year. In today's NHL when you are drafting in the top 10, you can't afford to swing and miss. The last 2 seasons they were a trendy pick to make it to the finals and both times they ran out of scoring in the playoffs. Defense is wonderful but if you are counting on Stewie to show up when you need him most....just ask the Avs.....that's what made him expendable.

Meanwhile the Avs drafted Duchene, Lando and MacK and each of them have their own line....the Blues were brutal for eternity and still don't have one forward to match either of those guys.

Give it another year or two when we see Duncan in the NHL...this trade isn't over yet.
- Fols19

Just going to correct you on a few things.

1) Blues already had Pietrangelo when they traded EJ and was a large reason he did.

2) The only reason the Blue haven't made it far in the playoffs is because they ran into LA both years who could beat anybody and the series were both very close and possibly the best of the playoffs.

3) The avs traded Quincy for Downie, we didn't draft him.

That does make the trades easier, we didnt give up young assets for old vetern players, we gambled and its working out now.

What EJ brings to the table, as a top pairing D-Man, at that cap hit, its a steal. He is slowly changing his game, I can see him becoming more of a Adam Foote style Dman vs a Rob Blake style.

Varly has played great for us since day 1 in Colorado, sure his stats the first 2 seasons dont show it, but inconsistent days off and playing on a really badly managed team last season, just those bad games of his really deflated his stats. Im glad he is finally getting the props he deserves
- DDM-Coga

Any knocks on EJ's offensive game were largely due to Sacco because he literally told all of his Dmen to just worry about defense and never pinch in the offensive zone, ever. We also never put a man to screen the goalie and his PP was poop. No Dman would be able to score pts under him, and none really did.

Wow, pretty impressive run so far under the highly disregarded Roy! Never been a big 'Lanch fan, but I like seeing a team that was so highly disregarded prove the doubters wrong! It's good for the NHL and good for hockey fans in general! Kudos Av's fans!

Any knocks on EJ's offensive game were largely due to Sacco because he literally told all of his Dmen to just worry about defense and never pinch in the offensive zone, ever. We also never put a man to screen the goalie and his PP was poop. No Dman would be able to score pts under him, and none really did.
- Meeqsb

This is true, and we are seeing our D under Roy actually produce some points, who would think that we would already have goals from Sarich, Hejda 6 games in and have everyone one of our Dmen, except Wilson just returning, having points already.

For what it's worth I was certainly skeptical of bringing Roy in as skipper, but like many others, have been eating crow so far.